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The discussion that never happens
Sep. 20th, 2012 03:24 pmThe conversation I wish would take place:
Me: I am so excited because I will see Death In June/Non/Sektion B/etc. next week.
Marc: Are you sure? They're Nazis, don't you know?
Me: They are? Why do you think that?
Marc: Well, they say (this) in their lyrics and worked with (them) in the past and what exactly is this talk about a European identity and a reverence for the past anyway? That's dodgy, innit?
Me: Well, I see what you mean about this and yes, that was dodgy but they have adressed that, said that it was just a folly of youth and that they're embarrassed about it. Of course you never know what the performers are actually thinking or saying when they're not in public but then, you never know that with other artists either.
I mean, Metallica are quite clearly more conservative than I would feel comfortable with if they were friends of mine but as far as buying the albums or going to concerts goes, I am happy to live with this conflict.
Marc: And you still want to go the concerts even though you feel uncertain about the artists?
Me: I do. As an assumed adult I made an adult decision and decided to go for it.
Marc: I will still stand in front of the venue and protest.
Me: Cool. I'll see you at the venue then.
Marc: Cool. See you then.
But no. It always turns personal and hearsay and sooner or later violence and disruption is threatened and acted upon. Oh, how I long for an informed and rational discussion.
What I am also missing in this whole discussion, whenever it comes up is a willingness/ability to not take shit at facevalue or rather see it in context. I, for example, always cringe when I see the graffito "Deutschland has gotta die" or "Deutschland muss sterben, damit wir leben können." ("Germany has got to die in order for us to live."), because I feel that this is an incredibly teen angst/rage slogan which (if taken seriously) aiming at the wrong golden calf, as well as assuming the author to fight the same righteous fight as the resistance in Nazi Germany and occupied areas, without actually facing the same risk.
Yet at the same time, I am more than happy to scream the slogan along with Atari Teenage Riot and really like the song. In popular music there is always this abstraction and the choice about how far you are willing to go along with it is yours alone.
At the same time, I have disovered a new pet peeve, which is: "They are so leftwing that they are already rightwing." No, they are not. There are no "lefty fascists". I admit that the difference whether you are being beaten up by somebody who thinks you unpatriotic or by somebody who finds you too patriotic is academic but that still does not mean that the theoretical background is the same, just like something totalitarian is not automatically fascist. You might consider this nitpicking but you'd be wrong. If you actually want to talk about something in a sensible and informed way, you should really try to avoid easy (and wrong) shortcuts.
Me: I am so excited because I will see Death In June/Non/Sektion B/etc. next week.
Marc: Are you sure? They're Nazis, don't you know?
Me: They are? Why do you think that?
Marc: Well, they say (this) in their lyrics and worked with (them) in the past and what exactly is this talk about a European identity and a reverence for the past anyway? That's dodgy, innit?
Me: Well, I see what you mean about this and yes, that was dodgy but they have adressed that, said that it was just a folly of youth and that they're embarrassed about it. Of course you never know what the performers are actually thinking or saying when they're not in public but then, you never know that with other artists either.
I mean, Metallica are quite clearly more conservative than I would feel comfortable with if they were friends of mine but as far as buying the albums or going to concerts goes, I am happy to live with this conflict.
Marc: And you still want to go the concerts even though you feel uncertain about the artists?
Me: I do. As an assumed adult I made an adult decision and decided to go for it.
Marc: I will still stand in front of the venue and protest.
Me: Cool. I'll see you at the venue then.
Marc: Cool. See you then.
But no. It always turns personal and hearsay and sooner or later violence and disruption is threatened and acted upon. Oh, how I long for an informed and rational discussion.
What I am also missing in this whole discussion, whenever it comes up is a willingness/ability to not take shit at facevalue or rather see it in context. I, for example, always cringe when I see the graffito "Deutschland has gotta die" or "Deutschland muss sterben, damit wir leben können." ("Germany has got to die in order for us to live."), because I feel that this is an incredibly teen angst/rage slogan which (if taken seriously) aiming at the wrong golden calf, as well as assuming the author to fight the same righteous fight as the resistance in Nazi Germany and occupied areas, without actually facing the same risk.
Yet at the same time, I am more than happy to scream the slogan along with Atari Teenage Riot and really like the song. In popular music there is always this abstraction and the choice about how far you are willing to go along with it is yours alone.
At the same time, I have disovered a new pet peeve, which is: "They are so leftwing that they are already rightwing." No, they are not. There are no "lefty fascists". I admit that the difference whether you are being beaten up by somebody who thinks you unpatriotic or by somebody who finds you too patriotic is academic but that still does not mean that the theoretical background is the same, just like something totalitarian is not automatically fascist. You might consider this nitpicking but you'd be wrong. If you actually want to talk about something in a sensible and informed way, you should really try to avoid easy (and wrong) shortcuts.
